The Rant Thread

[Sly Reflex]

I don't know how I can make it any simpler. MTX and season pass stuff isn't needed except in the most extreme cases. All the games that say they 'need' them are talking out their arses. If you buy that games like Assassin's Creed, FIFA, Call of Duty, Battlefield, NBA or any of the other huge games need extra purchases in them then you're a complete and utter fucking lunatic. Just off over the counter sales those games make immense profits.

Take something like GTAV. That game made so much money that it could have easily put all the DLC for the online section for free, it didn't need Shark Cards to buoy it up. Take Two interactive would have still made vaults of cash, it's just they peddled the excuse of "We need this to continue operating" and people bought into it.

If you tell a lie enough people begin to believe it. Yes, game development costs have gone through the roof, but also the amount of people buying the games has gone up exponentially too.

We're told time and time again, especially with MTX, that they won't upset the balance of the game. Except when they do. GTAV, Shadow of War, FIFA FUT, Assassins Creed Odyssey, NBA, WWE, there's more games but you get the picture. The integrity of these games is being compromised because on a base level of design they're looking to where they can cut a portion of it off and sell it back. Shadow of War even admitted this was the case. Destiny 2 also damaged itself by putting a huge focus on cosmetic MTX crud.

Look at it this way. You pay £45 for a game. It's 30 hours long and has a load of stuff to do besides that. Then DLC comes out for it, they ask for £15 and it's got 1/10th of the content of the base game if you plated every last bit of it. Does that make any sense to you? A section of entertainment that has less effort put into it than the rest of the game, but they charge you more for it?

Like Dwarf said, there are instances of DLC being fantastic. Gears 3's Emergence Day DLC. Borderlands Armoury of General Knoxx, Assault on Dragon Keep and Claptastic Voyage, TES had Shivering Isles, The Fallout games had some great stuff. Dying Light had The Following. Burnout Paradise had Big Surf Island. The Witcher had Blood and Wine. There's a lot of examples of how to do great DLC.

The unfortunate truth is that those DLC's are so rare that they're outside the norm. We usually get some shit that lasts a few hours and then is done, and it's that that packs out the season passes. I've just realised that season passes are like lootboxes. You never quite know what you're going to get until it's all out.

The games industry 99% of the time isn't looking out for you. It's there to lure you in and take you for as much as it can. There are still a lot of honest people working in the industry, but the guys at the top pulling the strings call the shots and that's where things get shady. I get it, gaming is a business and you've got to keep the lights on, but to do that you make great games that are free of bullshit, not make something that's great and then make it worse so you can cream a load more cash from idiots.

[One-armed dwarf]

I guess I can only relate to my own experiences here, I haven't played that much bad DLC really (ironically Fallout 3 is one of the ones I was less impressed by). But then I guess I don't buy enough of it.

The thing for me is how scope is handled when making these games and I think most DLC would invite too much feature creep into a project if it was all part of the main package. But if it's made later on it makes much more sense. But also I think that the scope of a lot of DLC is too small to have as a springboard for a sequel. Again thinking of the Crowns DLC in DSII, where it's all just miniature stories which callback to DSI's DLC.

Lastly I don't know how naive this is but I think DLC removes the threat of the redundancy cliff-edge at the end of a big crunch for a project. I'd like to think this anyway.

I think the MTX stuff is a separate conversation really. None of that stuff is really content.

What are some bad examples of DLC other than Mass Effect and costume stuff?

[Maryokutai]

Every BioWare game that got published by EA had bad DLC. DA Origins even had an NPC that tried to sell it to you.

My personal 'favourite' would be Asura's Wrath. Cutting out the ending and selling it as DLC is still the most shitty example of DLC to this day.

[Sly Reflex]

Mad Moxxi's Underdome is probably the one I'd point the finger at first, but there's a few bad ones out of the Borderlands stuff. Fallout had a few stinkers. Skyrims stuff is suspect. All map packs are debatable depending on how much you play the game and if they've had any changes or improvements, for example they did a map pack for one of the CoD's where they brought back fan favourite and couldn't even be bothered to fix the points where you could glitch out of the map. Destiny has a terrible good to bad ratio for DLC. Dying Light has some fair old guff added to it. All of The Divisions DLC was shiiiiite free or otherwise. Katamari on 360 had half the game cut for DLC. Asura's Wrath had the end chopped and sold back.

A huge proportion of what comes out post game is toss. It's little more than filler or gimmicky attraction at best. You get a couple of hours for your tenner, you might as well not bother and put the money towards something else or wait until a GOTY edition where everything is included int he asking price.

MTX are worse of course, because you are paying for something that has been stripped from the game to sell it back to you. However, you look at some DLC and it could be considered the same, especially when you look at games like Beautiful Katamari and Asura's Wrath.

It's a dire state. We should never have to look at a game and wonder if we're going to need to throw extra money at it to make sure it should be what it is. To be clear, I'm in no way talking about those big expansions that have had time and attention slathered on them and deserve the money they're asking for, nor am I aiming directly at those little throw away XBLA like games that would be 10 quid and might have a little bit of a jaunt into other areas for a few quid a pop. This rant is aimed directly at the big boy end of the industry and its constant lies that it needs to do what it does to make more money otherwise the games are unfeasible to make, because that doesn't make any sense. If a game is going to be unprofitable then crippling it with MTX isn't going to help at all.

[Sly Reflex]

I'm taking so long to compose these posts other people are beating me to certain points. They're valid points though, otherwise people wouldn't be bringing them up.

[One-armed dwarf]

The problem I think with ME2 isn't that they made all that DLC to be honest, it's that they never made a fucking GOTY edition so someone like Shiny* or me could pick it up later stress free with all the stuff in it.

The price to the DLC never ever adjusted so you would buy ME2 for the price of a pint but the DLC would add ~25£ or so on.

Most games aren't like that now I think. But ME2 is a clusterfuck of fucking stupid ****. Especially on PC with the bioware points cockshit.


So as a result I permanently clocked out of the Mass Effect universe and it's too late for me to give a single fuk ever again about it


*referring to Shiney's comment about buying GOTY editions

[Blakey]

We're told time and time again, especially with MTX, that they won't upset the balance of the game...Assassins Creed Odyssey

MTX don’t affect the balance of the game in AC:OD one iota, you’ve been taken in by the Angry Joe/Jim Sterling lies with that one.

The thing with you mate is that it’s very easy to criticise these games if you’ve got no stake in them, you barely play any AAA games so looking through the window at them from the outside it is easy to see their faults and be taken in by the YouTube hysteria.

Play some for yourself, see for yourself if what commentators on YT are saying is true before believing them over friends. I think what you’ll find will surprise you.

Ever since Battlefront 2 Angry Joe, Sterling, Yong Yea and the ilk know that criticising MTX no matter how big or small the complaint is or even if it’s founded in reality or not it’ll get views so they keep beating the dead horse time and time again.

[shinymcshine]

Let's not forget that the whole DLC and MTX has been around video games for many years in different guises.

I recall the 1989 RPG Bloodwych getting an "Extra Levels" expansion (a precursor to DLC), whilst people paid to shortcut a game by getting an Action Replay cartridge (from C64 era onwards) then buying a magazine with codes for extra lives, invincibility etc (akin to MTX pay to win model).

Pretty sure that Merman could provide a better VG DLC & MTX History lesson than my examples above.

[Blakey]

I almost think the anti-MTX crusaders are worse than the damn things sometimes, they’re like a cult.

[Sly Reflex]

We're told time and time again, especially with MTX, that they won't upset the balance of the game...Assassins Creed Odyssey

MTX don’t affect the balance of the game in AC:OD one iota, you’ve been taken in by the Angry Joe/Jim Sterling lies with that one.

If there's no effect on the game why do they exist? You can rattle on how they didn't spoil your game, but just think how nice it would have been if they didn't exist and you could play without them being a thing at all. Just because you like a game doesn't mean you can't rip into it when it does something bad. And believe me, what Odyssey is doing is a pisstake. I don't need to 'be taken in' as you put it. I call a spade a spade, and AC Odyssey is taking the cake with the bullshit it's pulling. There's zero need for all that stuff to be in the game, apart from Ubi want to be greedy and have more bites of the pie than they should be having.

I don't play them (AAA games) because I don't want to support them. How hard is that to get into your head? I'm fucking tired of buying games and them being full of lootboxes and other shitty practices.

I get it, you're happy go lucky guy, but I could piss up your back and tell you it was raining and your the kind of gullible sod that'd believe it.

[Snaggletooth]

I really dont get the pro support of loot boxes and MTX

I can understand people ragging on them but supporting them !
I can also understand that currently they dont affect every player, congrat for not being in that business market demographic but surely what's to gain in supporting this practice?

It's the type of thing that if not bought into check is only going to get bigger and more common in premium price games, and it may not affect you now but that balance will become increasingly skewed the more people accept it. As I have said before we used to have cheat codes to unlock this shit, know your paying for the privilege of the cheat code.

I get it in FTP games, nothing is free and while i still dont like the practice I understand their place in that market.

I'm fortunate I have little to no interest in the vast majority of games that support this, so like many I'm not the target of this kinda shit, Though with the DMC news recently it made me decide to cancel my preorder until I see more on how they implement MTX.

I have been a big fan of the DMC games over the years and to see this in a DMC game at launch sorry even as a fan I can't support this practice. Not to say I wont pick it up down the line but it wont be in the important first month release window.

I understand most people arent going to go to the extent I have especially for a game or franchise you enjoy,

but let's be honest what positives do Loot Boxes and Mtx add to games that games didn't have before they were about, and what positives will they have on releases down the line?

What negatives will people protesting them have?
To me they seem like the answers are way more positive in support of the later.

[Blakey]

We're told time and time again, especially with MTX, that they won't upset the balance of the game...Assassins Creed Odyssey

MTX don’t affect the balance of the game in AC:OD one iota, you’ve been taken in by the Angry Joe/Jim Sterling lies with that one.

If there's no effect on the game why do they exist? You can rattle on how they didn't spoil your game, but just think how nice it would have been if they didn't exist and you could play without them being a thing at all. Just because you like a game doesn't mean you can't rip into it when it does something bad. And believe me, what Odyssey is doing is a pisstake. I don't need to 'be taken in' as you put it. I call a spade a spade, and AC Odyssey is taking the cake with the bullshit it's pulling. There's zero need for all that stuff to be in the game, apart from Ubi want to be greedy and have more bites of the pie than they should be having.

I don't play them (AAA games) because I don't want to support them. How hard is that to get into your head? I'm fucking tired of buying games and them being full of lootboxes and other shitty practices.

I get it, you're happy go lucky guy, but I could piss up your back and tell you it was raining and your the kind of gullible sod that'd believe it.

They exist because Game Publishers are Public limited companies and they've got to make better margins for their shareholders. The $60 day 1 pricing model just wasn't cutting it.

It is the basis of what Western Capitalist society (warts and all) is based on. They're entitled to do so with the ever-rising development costs, ongoing server costs and smaller retail margins. Making AAA games is not cheap in the slightest no matter what some may say.

You get micro-transactions in every walk of life. Want to fly to Alicante for the weekend? That'll be £50 base fee, £5 to choose a cheap seat, £20 if you want an exit seat, £30 if you want extra legroom, £30 if you want a checked bag, £5 if you want speedy boarding etc. It's exactly the same as what you get in games.

If what Ubi is doing in Odyssey is such a pisstake where was your outrage when they did it 5 years ago? Yup, they had the exact same 'time savers' introduced during AC4: Black Flag, where was the outrage then? There was none because the YouTubers that thrive from views peddling faux controversies didn't exist back then.

What's sad is that folks can't extract great games from the MTX/Loot boxes. Obviously in more egregious examples like Battlefront 2 it's harder to see the light coming through I get that but stuff like AC:OD which is easily as good as The Witcher 3 (and possibly one of the best WRPGs in recent years) being unfairly treated by certain more reactionary elements of the internet because it has a hidden screen with time savers available is just ridiculous quite frankly.

In conclusion. Are micro-transactions and loot boxes always bad? No. MTX/LBs are only bad when they're put in a predatory pay-to-win type scenario like Battlefront 2 and what we've heard of DMC5's. If they're cosmetic, if they're hidden away and don't affect the game one iota then who gives a fu*k? Even games with bad MTX/LBs in, let the people that wanna play the game play the game they wanna play without being browbeaten or guilt-tripped into not enjoying it. I'll be there day one for DMC5, I couldn't give a f*ck about the MTXs (as long as the game is balanced perfectly so I don't have to spend a penny).

If MTX/LBs put you off buying a game then fair enough, that's your decision. But I'm free to make my decision to buy a game with them without being lectured. Being lectured only makes me buy more games with them in to spite the crusaders quite frankly.

[Sly Reflex]

If MTX/LBs put you off buying a game then fair enough, that's your decision. But I'm free to make my decision to buy a game with them without being lectured. Being lectured only makes me buy more games with them in to spite the crusaders quite frankly.

It's your money and quite frankly I couldn't give a **** what you spend it on. But to be accepting on them is a fools errand. One day you'll boot up a game you've paid £50 for and it'll have it's hand out for every bit it can get. Want more save slots? MTX. Want more class spaces? MTX. Want a bigger bag for your loot? MTX. Want some more medipacks in a game where they're weirdly rare even though the game's quite hard? MTX. Because that's exactly where it's going, they're going to look what they can ship as a barebones game and the rest of it will be sold back to you in bits like some modular monstrosity. Everything will be carefully curated from the design upwards to sell those so call micro payments and you'll only have yourself to blame.

And don't come at me with "Well xxx game did it ages ago and nobody was angry then". Sometimes the fire has to take hold before people notice it. Back in 2006 or whenever Tiger Woods did the whole 'You can max you character out for 200 MS points' it was just a weird oddity. Now it's quite apparent what the long game was. It might have seemed innocuous then because we didn't know the dangers. Now we do. The boundaries have been tested and will be continuously tested until everyone is just conditioned to accept it or until people fight back after saying "Enough!".

[regemond]

Want more save slots? MTX. Want more class spaces? MTX. Want a bigger bag for your loot? MTX. Want some more medipacks in a game where they're weirdly rare even though the game's quite hard? MTX.

Wasn't that just Metal Gear Survive?

Personally, my opinion of MTX is that as long as they don't affect me and I can enjoy a game, I'll play what I'm interested in.

Ass Creed has MTX in there - it's not multiplayer, and as long as it doesn't have an offensive grind (ie it's no more offensive than your traditional WRPG) I'll be happy with that. It's for the impatient people who don't have a hundred or so hours to put into a game. It's for the less-skilled people who want to see the end of the story. Yes, its Ubi sucking the customer dry, and yes it's disgraceful that games companies have started doing this, but they're going to keep doing it.

WWE has MTX in there - 2k17 was shit, but I managed to get my enjoyment out of it. 2k18 took out any kind of story mode and completely unbalanced it in favour of MTX. Didn't finish it, won't be getting any future ones.

[RYAN WHITELAW]

I was nearly fighting in Glasgow 2 times in the space of a week.

Once with a prick trying to jump the bus queue
Once with a guy who smashed into me at the entrance to sainsburys even though i moved out the way for him even though he was the one on his phone not looking where he was going. He went "**** you", i said "Naw **** you, ya self entitled cunt, take your phone out your face" he then marched up to me shouting "TOUCH ME, TOUCH ME!" i said "im not that way inclined and if i was to touch you you would be 10 feet over there, out cold, prick" I then told him to walk the **** away and he ranted a bit until the security guard came out and defended me saying i was standing side on and actually going out of my way to be polite. The cunt didnt know what to do and apologised and put his hand out for a shake, i shook his hand and said "Dont be so selfish towards other people and watch who you swear at". He walked away and i was a bit embarrassed by it all.


............... If i wasnt on my lunch break i would have probably killed him.