Are casual games killing off the hardcore games?

[Howling]

I think that while the Wii has been a big success in the gaming industry it has coursed a lot of problems in the way that the console became successful. The increase of casual games and gamers is killing of the hardcore games and gamers, hardcore gamers help create the industry and made it what it is two day. With all the games companies looking to create games for the casual gamer this is meaning less and less hardcore games seeing the light of day.

Yes there is still a number of games getting released that are more to the hardcore gamer but even some of these are getting watered down so that everyone can play them. Look at some of the games that were hard to master but when you do are great games World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy and Super Mario to names some games. These have all been made easier.
WoW has been made a lot easier so that more people play the game which sounds good but then you look at the gamers that are stopping playing the game because it is to casual (I know people that have played the game for years and have now stopped because of this reason) it is not such a good idea.
FFXIII is another game that has been stripped back to the point were is just and only just can be called a RPG and this is to make more people play the game (Again people have not even bought the game for this reason and some of these are big fans of FF series) so does this balances out?
Super Mario now has a option in if there is a hard bit that you are unable to get past you can just get the game to do it for you (Yes I know you don't have to use it but still why is it there).

Now lets look at the Wii this is with out a shadow of a doubt a casual console, this shows as games companies are stopping making games that would appeal to the hardcore games out there because they are not selling. These to me is down to the fact that hardcore gamers are not buying the Wii because it is a casual console (catch 20). When you look at the bigger picture, yes casual games have a place in the gaming industry but when companies start changing games to suit casual games and forgetting the hardcore games this were they should step back and think again.

My main point is this casual games and gamers are making the industry worst but they do have a place in it just not as bigger part as they have now and all the companies should create games for all gamers not just for one of them. A good way to look at it is this in say 5 years when Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have their new console outs are the casual gamers again to buy the consoles or are they going to spend there money on different things and leave the gaming industry which would mean a loss in sales all round. Plus as a hardcore gamer 90% of my money goes to buying games can casual gamers say the same.

Too answer the question yes casual gamers are killing off the hardcore gamers and games and in the long run could even kill off the games industry it's self to the point.

[DifferentClass]

Cheer up, it's not all doom and gloom.

You say FFXIII has gone more casual, even if that is the case there are other games that aren't casual. Resonance of Fate is a JRPG that came out at a similar time, being a hardcore gamer I'm sure you are aware of it. What I'm saying is there are games to appeal to both newcomers and veterans. As for the demo mode in NSMBW it's just the same as someone passing you the pad to get them past a troublesome bit, I think it's a neat feature.

Some games are getting easier, but then games like Bayonetta are still being made, while casual games are popular I feel most people are catered for. There were a time when platformers were popular and that's what would sell, then stealth games were, now its casual games. You just gotta go with the flow, play the games you like, which are still being made and ignore the trends.

[rumblecat]

A lot of games were only 'hardcore' in the first place because they had their roots in the arcade industry, where games were designed to make you die relatively quickly and spend for another go. Have to say I haven't noticed a particular swing one way or another in the last ten years, beyond the games market expanding to include casual games. From the sounds of FFXIII I don't know if it could be called casual at all- they'd need a huge re-think and re-tooling of the game to try and take some of that Wii-Fit market away- reading threads and hearing discussions about it, it sounds as impenetrable as ever to non-RPGers. But no

But nothing's killing off anything. Trash novels didn't kill off the serious novel. Hollywood blockbusters didn't kill of art house cinema. And casual games aren't killing off hardcore games- the market is big enough to take both, just as the console market can support the Wii and the 360. Keep in mind as well that there's a big falsehood that every casual game released on the Wii is automatically a success- it isn't. And there's still a big slice of, um, hardcore pie out there.

[maf-me-quick]

yes. completely and utterly. i haven't been able to find a game worth playing that doesn't appeal to the know-nothing masses going on 10 years! GTA3 was the last real video game made. it alienated every one who was opposed to violence, it confused people who couldn't work with 2 analogues, and your mum would try take it away from you because of what she read in the paper. now that is a video game! then these dance mats and singing games became available and appealed to everybody. sacrilege! businessmen saw they could make more money from other people then just me. the bastards! burn in hell!

video games are dead! and it's all because of nintendo and their infernal wiis!!

[Sherak]

yes. completely and utterly. i haven't been able to find a game worth playing that doesn't appeal to the know-nothing masses going on 10 years! GTA3 was the last real video game made. it alienated every one who was opposed to violence, it confused people who couldn't work with 2 analogues, and your mum would try take it away from you because of what she read in the paper. now that is a video game! then these dance mats and singing games became available and appealed to everybody. sacrilege! businessmen saw they could make more money from other people then just me. the bastards! burn in hell!

video games are dead! and it's all because of nintendo and their infernal wiis!!

Think it needs adding before the backlash

[Pious the chosen]

video games are dead! and it's all because of nintendo and their infernal wiis!!

I think the poor sales for the 'hardcore' Wii games shows this argument for what it really is...niché.
Some say a hardcore game is one from arcades, mostly a Japanese obsession these days, so therefore they must be the only hardcore gamers left? Others think hardcore games exist on one console over another? Sega, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft ALL earn their big money from casual markets: with singing games,music games, sports games and even FPS.

Mega man is a casual game, you can pick it up and play it anytime. Kill one robot master then leave the game for a few months and repeat so anyone in theory can play it this way to completion. Yet to be good at Mega-man is to be considered hardcore so then is by being able to play any game well make it hardcore? If thats the criteria, casual games aren't killing off hardcore ones, they're just changing the definition of a hardcore game.

[Shaolin_monkey]

If the casual games didn't sell so well there'd be far less money for our niche games. Rejoice that the masses buy these casual games, that we can have games like Bad Company 2, Falllout 3, and Mass Effect 2.

[Pious the chosen]

If the casual games didn't sell so well there'd be far less money for our niche games. Rejoice that the masses buy these casual games, that we can have games like Bad Company 2, Falllout 3, and Mass Effect 2.

Exactly, even though I'd say FPS is a casual Market too... remarkably cookie cutter genre, like yearly football releases.