Manhunt 2 denied UK release!

[MikeHaggar]

Maybe he means Eire/Ireland, which is wrong, since play.com ships from Jersey.

[Cutty]

From the uncut video leak, it seems like the violence is ridiculously heavy and largely pointless. However, I still don't agree with the banning because it is essentially taking away an adult's right to decide on what content is suitable for them.

[ScotsWahey]

So is there anywhere to watch the leaked video then? This is all confusing me, its a game. I'm old enough to join the army and shoot the face off an iraqi so I'm old enough to play a game.

[MikeHaggar]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28706/Manhunt ... ives-in-US

For the time being there seems little chance of Rockstar’s Manhunt 2 arriving in the UK, but US gamers will from today be able to purchase the controversial title in games stores following its official release.

After initially being granted a restrictive Adults Only rating by North American trade body ESRB, the title was instead given a more lenient Mature certificate on appeal, meaning it will be widely available to the public.

No doubt Manhunt 2’s notoriety will lead to a number of importers enjoying a lot of business – though aside from the region-free PSP version, PS2 and Wii gamers face the prospect of illegally modding their console if they wish to play the title.

[MikeHaggar]

http://kotaku.com/gaming/rumor/target-p ... 318680.php

Word's coming in that Target have pulled Manhunt 2 from their shelves, and won't be stocking it. At all. Seems the ESRB clearing it for release means squat, with Target bosses playing censor and deciding off their own backs the game shouldn't be offered for sale. While there's no official confirmation on this from Target or Take-Two, there are numerous reports coming in from both customers and Target employees indicating this is indeed the case.

[-Jay-]

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/28706/Manhunt ... ives-in-US

For the time being there seems little chance of Rockstar’s Manhunt 2 arriving in the UK, but US gamers will from today be able to purchase the controversial title in games stores following its official release.

After initially being granted a restrictive Adults Only rating by North American trade body ESRB, the title was instead given a more lenient Mature certificate on appeal, meaning it will be widely available to the public.

No doubt Manhunt 2’s notoriety will lead to a number of importers enjoying a lot of business – though aside from the region-free PSP version, PS2 and Wii gamers face the prospect of illegally modding their console if they wish to play the title.

Surely we can just import from another european country?

[rumblecat]

I don't think it's out anywhere in Europe. Far as I can tell the games only been released Stateside.

[-Jay-]

I don't think it's out anywhere in Europe. Far as I can tell the games only been released Stateside.

Oh well, it's probably for the best eh? Heaven knows what would happen if a load of adults got hold of it.

[MikeHaggar]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30952

Rockstar today launched its appeal against the BBFC's decision to refuse Manhunt 2 certification, accusing the board of putting its reputation above the interests of gamers.

Geoffrey Robertson, representing Rockstar, began the proceedings by claiming the British Board of Film Classification was a misnomer - suggesting it should instead be referred to as the British Board of Videogame Censors.

"There's no evidence that playing interactive videogames leads to a propensity to act them out in real life. We wonder why Manhunt 2 has been singled out for special treatment," he stated.

Robertson went on to accuse the BBFC of being "simply ignorant of the gaming experience" and "throwing adjectives with hyperbolic abandon at the game".

"Their reputation is not at stake; if it were we could show how, over the last century, they've been derided for some of the most stupid decisions in censorship history," he continued. "But we're not going to go down that road."

Addressing the panel from the Video Appeals Committee present to hear Rockstar's appeal Robertson said, "There you are, seven of you - not one of you has experienced, I'm told by the chairman, computer games, or are a gamer."

At this point one member of the panel interjected, stating, "That's not true. Some of us actually have played computer games." It was also confirmed that the panel did play Manhunt 2 in advance of the hearing.

Robertson described as "offensive and outrageous" the "allegation the board makes against adults in this country that they're somehow going to go and shoot or kill as a result of playing Manhunt 2.

"Millions of gamers play videogames and no crime has ever been directly attributed to them, with one exception."

The exception, Robertson explained, was the alleged connection between the original Manhunt and the murder of British teenager Stefan Pakeerah. The police later issued a statement which said Pakeerah's killer did not own the game and there was no connection.

Robertson added, "We say [Manhunt 2] has been banned not because of any likelihood it will harm gamers, but because of the likelihood it will harm the reputation of the BBFC."

The appeal is ongoing.

[rumblecat]

No evidence connecting games and violence, says BBFC

The BBFC has accepted there is no proven link between anti-social behaviour and violent videogames - but said more research is required to conclusively rule any connection out.

Speaking at the appeal hearing yesterday Andrew Caldecott, representing the BBFC, stated, "The board's position is that there is insufficient evidence to prove, as a fact, there is a causal connection between violent games and behavioural harm… It's a perfectly fair point, and one which we accept, but it's not by any means a complete answer to the question the [Video Appeals Committee] has to decide."

On the subject of research presented earlier by Rockstar in defence of its argument, Caldecott said: "The research certainly achieves the objective of establishing that research does not demonstrate that there is a causal link. But what it certainly does not establish is that there isn't."

He went on to observe that neither side had suggested Manhunt 2 was suitable for people aged under 18 at any point during the hearing. "For a young person, this is a disturbing game, it is a shocking game, and there issues about innocence and matters of that sort in relation to young people.

"In a Utopian society, you would have effective measures where the over-18s could play what was suitable for them without being cluttered by the fact minors will see them. But you can't make classification decisions without regard to the social prevalence [of games]."

Caldecott went on to present the BBFC's response to the argument that videogames should be judged by the same standards as films such as Saw and Hostel. He told the appeals panel, "Film is a different medium; it is simply is a different experience. There are ways in which it is perhaps more involving, because you are dealing with absolute reality, with real people, in film.

"On the other hand, many people watch horror films to some extent from the point of view of the victim, or the point of view of what's going to happen - not with this very distinctive point of view of being the person who's wielding the weapon, and is rewarded for killing in the bloodiest way possible."

Caldecott also argued that games could not be effectively compared with films because of the nature of the technology they use. "Games and technology develop incrementally… If you take the comparable argument to its extreme, you get a gradual creeping towards ever more graphic violence, but you never draw a line at any particular point.

"If you're not careful you get into a peculiar game of Grandmother's Footsteps, where everybody's shuffling forward but Grandma's never allowed to turn round and say, 'Stop'… Is there never a point at which you can say, 'This is unacceptable'?

"If there is a point, the question then becomes much more difficult: where do you draw it?"

Caldecott later suggested that videogames with violent content are more likely to be seen by children than violent films. "A videogame is inherently less likely to be strictly supervised, and that is supported by research," he said, adding that violent films are usually watched late at night.

"You don't come home from work, have your tea and watch Saw 3. Games are played at all times of the day when children are about in the house."

Turning to Manhunt 2 specifically, Caldecott focused on the nature of the game's violent content. "In this particular game, the victims are people. They are not aliens or griffins or Daleks… You see lots of human beings quite mercilessly kicking and punching other human beings as you move through the game.

"It's a frequent theme of level one, which is the only one I've actually played right through. Even when you're not killing someone yourself, you're passing someone who's getting a good beating or having an unpleasant time."

He also pointed to the weapons used in the game as a particular area for concern. "They're not magic wands or Excalibur; many of them are everyday objects."

Concluding the hearing, the chairman of the appeals panel declined Caldecott's offer of a walkthrough of Manhunt 2. He confirmed the panel had played four levels and said all its members are "quite content we really have got a grip on what this is all about".

He added, "We have taken on-board the point that playing and watching a videogame are two different things.

"This is a very important case and there is an awful lot we must consider. We will work hard at it and get you a decision as soon as possible."

The Video Appeals Committee has yet to set a date for the results of the hearing.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=30970

Fair enough, but that stance doesn't really seem to justify banning the game for adults. Having played through it myself, I'd have a hard time recommending the game due to the blandness of some of the later levels, and the fact it goes all third-person shootery for the majority of the game... but in terms of violence and context, it's fairly simple. Bad guys are after you and you're jabbing things in their eyes. It's pretty standard video game violence.

[Rotek]

Rockstar have won the appeal:

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29113/Rocksta ... successful

So we could see a UK release then! Finally! (Even though I'm not too interested, to be honest!)

[-Jay-]

Excellent news. A victory for common sense. I'm not interested in the game either, but this is great news for those of us who don't wish to be mollycoddled by the state.

[Gremiofan]

can we not swap magic this for ps2 then?

[Superbeasto]

The best thing is that the people who originally wanted the game banned as they didn't think it should be played by the people of britain have only succeeded in making sure people clamor to get it when it's released, thus making sure more of our fragile minds will be warped.

[PRNelson]

The best thing is that the people who originally wanted the game banned as they didn't think it should be played by the people of britain have only succeeded in making sure people clamor to get it when it's released, thus making sure more of our fragile minds will be warped.

That's exactly what happens. I never wanted to get the first game until there was talk of it being banned. Then I rushed and bought a full price copy (I NEVER pay full price) to make sure that I didn't miss out on gaming history!